Comments on: No one has ever written an original song http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/ Music, Technology, Evolution Sat, 04 Feb 2012 15:18:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ethan http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-441 Ethan Mon, 31 May 2010 18:59:39 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-441 Matthew: totally fair response. I completely agree that there are different levels of originality, and that there's a distinction between the micro and macro levels. That said, I find that it's impossible to disentangle an idea from its influences at any of those levels. The influences get more complex and multiply determined at the macro level but I see them as still being so strongly present as to undermine anyone's claim to genuine originality. I have very often felt myself rejecting a direct quote from another piece of music in favor of an "original" idea, but I'm always wrong. On later listening and reflection, I can trace every idea I've ever had back to a source. I have indeed been asked to come up with generic examples of different styles, like the "80's Hair Metal Song." These exercises usually do sound less like "me" than when I'm operating more freely. But my "pure" creativity just draws from a bigger and more complicated toolbox than my genre exercises. I'm producing rock tracks for a guy right now, and he thinks I'm some kind of genius because I come up with these guitar parts that are super dissonant and exotic-sounding. But if Thelonious Monk were in the room, he'd recognize all the chord voicings I'm copping from him. They just sound original because of the rock context. If true originality exists at all, I think it's in the finding of unlikely contexts for existing ideas, not in the ideas themselves. Matthew: totally fair response. I completely agree that there are different levels of originality, and that there’s a distinction between the micro and macro levels. That said, I find that it’s impossible to disentangle an idea from its influences at any of those levels. The influences get more complex and multiply determined at the macro level but I see them as still being so strongly present as to undermine anyone’s claim to genuine originality.

I have very often felt myself rejecting a direct quote from another piece of music in favor of an “original” idea, but I’m always wrong. On later listening and reflection, I can trace every idea I’ve ever had back to a source.

I have indeed been asked to come up with generic examples of different styles, like the “80′s Hair Metal Song.” These exercises usually do sound less like “me” than when I’m operating more freely. But my “pure” creativity just draws from a bigger and more complicated toolbox than my genre exercises. I’m producing rock tracks for a guy right now, and he thinks I’m some kind of genius because I come up with these guitar parts that are super dissonant and exotic-sounding. But if Thelonious Monk were in the room, he’d recognize all the chord voicings I’m copping from him. They just sound original because of the rock context. If true originality exists at all, I think it’s in the finding of unlikely contexts for existing ideas, not in the ideas themselves.

]]> By: matthew http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-440 matthew Sun, 30 May 2010 20:31:27 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-440 My biggest problem with this is that it the writer seems to make no distinction between the idea of originality on a macro/micro level. The fact that all songs are essentially made of sound, and that sound is something we have heard before and existed before us does not disprove the idea that there are varying levels of originality, or at least in the realistic sense in which we use that word. Original does not have to mean "free from any and all influences." Example: I'm sure that, as a composer, you have found yourself rejecting ideas/notes/passages while writing a piece because they called too much of a direct mental connection to an unrelated piece. So you re-tool to find something that you feel expresses your ideas in a more individualistic, or 'original,' way. Now if I asked you to write a piece to be recorded in 5 minutes that was *intentionally* supposed to sound like an artist/genre you are familiar with, I'm sure that you could make a reasonable approximation. Would this recording ("80's Hair Metal Song" or "Song in the Style of the Cure," e.g.) be equally 'original' as the music you created and expressed to be an official representation of your sound? My biggest problem with this is that it the writer seems to make no distinction between the idea of originality on a macro/micro level. The fact that all songs are essentially made of sound, and that sound is something we have heard before and existed before us does not disprove the idea that there are varying levels of originality, or at least in the realistic sense in which we use that word. Original does not have to mean “free from any and all influences.”

Example: I’m sure that, as a composer, you have found yourself rejecting ideas/notes/passages while writing a piece because they called too much of a direct mental connection to an unrelated piece. So you re-tool to find something that you feel expresses your ideas in a more individualistic, or ‘original,’ way.

Now if I asked you to write a piece to be recorded in 5 minutes that was *intentionally* supposed to sound like an artist/genre you are familiar with, I’m sure that you could make a reasonable approximation. Would this recording (“80′s Hair Metal Song” or “Song in the Style of the Cure,” e.g.) be equally ‘original’ as the music you created and expressed to be an official representation of your sound?

]]> By: No one has ever written an original song | flux-rad.com http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-439 No one has ever written an original song | flux-rad.com Sun, 30 May 2010 18:23:58 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-439 [...] LINK [...] [...] LINK [...]

]]> By: Ethan http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-438 Ethan Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:53:49 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-438 If I alter an existing melody by one note and claim it as original, neither the law nor common sense is going to agree with me. The point of my post isn't that every piece of music is identical, the point is that "new" ideas are slight and incremental variants on existing ideas, with those variations being so slight as to contradict the conventional sense of the word original. If I alter an existing melody by one note and claim it as original, neither the law nor common sense is going to agree with me. The point of my post isn’t that every piece of music is identical, the point is that “new” ideas are slight and incremental variants on existing ideas, with those variations being so slight as to contradict the conventional sense of the word original.

]]> By: Jared http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-437 Jared Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:31:58 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-437 Even if glitch was made by mistake, still original. And even if altered slightly by a small increment, it is still original. A car made with the same basic principal as a standard car, but happens to have a 5th wheel in the middle, that's quite original. The first guitarist to play a pentatonic scale with distortion and sweep picking is original to the regular scale played clean. Nothing has to be radically different to be original. I don't value originality very highly but I do regard common sense much higher than technicalities. And saying there is no original is one of the most short sighted things someone can say. Even if glitch was made by mistake, still original. And even if altered slightly by a small increment, it is still original. A car made with the same basic principal as a standard car, but happens to have a 5th wheel in the middle, that’s quite original. The first guitarist to play a pentatonic scale with distortion and sweep picking is original to the regular scale played clean. Nothing has to be radically different to be original. I don’t value originality very highly but I do regard common sense much higher than technicalities. And saying there is no original is one of the most short sighted things someone can say.

]]> By: Ethan http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-436 Ethan Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:45:08 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-436 I think the first glitch song was an accident, which is not what we usually mean by original. Synthesizers emerged very gradually, from tone generators through theremins and into moogs and such, and each step was only a small increment further away from what had come before it. Jimi Hendrix was unique, but he wasn't the first person to play blues scale or feed a guitar back. He was one of the first to do it really well, and nobody sounds precisely like him, but he was operating squarely in the middle of an R&B tradition that was decades old. I don't think there are any major radical leaps forward out of the blue, in music or anything else. I also don't think originality is very valuable. It's more important to me that musicians be truthful. I think the first glitch song was an accident, which is not what we usually mean by original. Synthesizers emerged very gradually, from tone generators through theremins and into moogs and such, and each step was only a small increment further away from what had come before it. Jimi Hendrix was unique, but he wasn’t the first person to play blues scale or feed a guitar back. He was one of the first to do it really well, and nobody sounds precisely like him, but he was operating squarely in the middle of an R&B tradition that was decades old. I don’t think there are any major radical leaps forward out of the blue, in music or anything else. I also don’t think originality is very valuable. It’s more important to me that musicians be truthful.

]]> By: Jared http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-435 Jared Tue, 10 Nov 2009 03:38:16 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-435 How can deny that the first glitch song was not original? And synthesizers? The fact the for hundreds of years they couldn't fathom what a wave form was, and synthesizers and processors changed that. Glitch uses sounds like CD's skipping, not a normal "pitch", so you'd be saying that that is not original. I think you are comparing humans and music to be too similar. Hendrix wasn't an original human, but his music was sounds and compositions no one had ever heard, and some still can't be copied. His music is therefor original. His ideas weren't, but he was the first to achieve these sounds. The first person to use a phaser was original, first to use distortion, first to use the wah peddle, were all original. Even the first to play the C major scale using these effects was original. Yes, the scale has been used hundreds of times, the fact is the C major scale played on a guitar with clean sound is perceived as different than a guitar with standard distortion. There are few originals, and I agree most everything out now is not original, but saying that there is no such thing as original, is just plain ignorant to think. How can deny that the first glitch song was not original? And synthesizers? The fact the for hundreds of years they couldn’t fathom what a wave form was, and synthesizers and processors changed that. Glitch uses sounds like CD’s skipping, not a normal “pitch”, so you’d be saying that that is not original.
I think you are comparing humans and music to be too similar. Hendrix wasn’t an original human, but his music was sounds and compositions no one had ever heard, and some still can’t be copied. His music is therefor original. His ideas weren’t, but he was the first to achieve these sounds.
The first person to use a phaser was original, first to use distortion, first to use the wah peddle, were all original. Even the first to play the C major scale using these effects was original. Yes, the scale has been used hundreds of times, the fact is the C major scale played on a guitar with clean sound is perceived as different than a guitar with standard distortion.
There are few originals, and I agree most everything out now is not original, but saying that there is no such thing as original, is just plain ignorant to think.

]]> By: Ethan http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-434 Ethan Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:04:35 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-434 In the sense that every new composition or performance is unique, I agree with you. What I mean is that there isn't a lot of novelty of content in new songs and improvisation. Every performance and listening experience of, like, the C major scale is unique, but it's the same scale every time. It's like the way every human being is unique, but still very similar to everybody else in terms of the basic anatomy and biochemistry. In the sense that every new composition or performance is unique, I agree with you. What I mean is that there isn’t a lot of novelty of content in new songs and improvisation. Every performance and listening experience of, like, the C major scale is unique, but it’s the same scale every time. It’s like the way every human being is unique, but still very similar to everybody else in terms of the basic anatomy and biochemistry.

]]> By: Nick http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/2009/no-one-has-ever-written-an-original-song/#comment-433 Nick Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:51:12 +0000 http://www.ethanhein.com/wp/?p=366#comment-433 Of course every song is original, if you measure from the simultaneous perspective of the artists and listeners. One song, two perspectives. Cheers, Nick Of course every song is original, if you measure from the simultaneous perspective of the artists and listeners.

One song, two perspectives.

Cheers,
Nick

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